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Betterdog4u
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PostSubject: Be the Pack Leader by Cesar Milan   Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:00 pm

Book Review:
I found the book to be mostly just a review of his TV episodes. (Probably ment to get you to watch the show!!!) The only thing that was new was in the back of the book. It had some "What to Do If ..." ideas.

After reading the book, I felt like I had watched several months of re-runs over again.

Comments: (Sorry, it's kinda long)
It's good that his show (and others like it) are geting ppl interested in training thier dogs and opening lines of communications about what is the best way to do the training. The proplem is that his methods and thories are a best "out of date". I've worked with several ppl who watch him religiously, but are getting less than stellar results with his methods. After talking with them and explaining that Cesar uses "Dominance" when he should be using "Loving Leadership" the lightbulb usually goes on.

As I've said in several past threads, I think his philosiphy (Exercise, Disipline, and Affection) has great merrit as long as it is put into a more positive light. I like to refur to it as: Exersize, Training, then Reward. It is a proven fact that dogs are easier to train after they have burned off pent up energy. I also agree with Cesar about the fact that you need to show strong leadership to train your dog! I also believe that affection can be a great form of reward. From that point on, we have very little in common.

The core of my training philosophy starts with becoming trusted friends with the dog. Once a dog trusts & respects you, it will want to do anything for you. I don't agree with heavy-handed "dominance" traning. It is just not effective in most normal cases. Cesar works with A LOT of "Red Zone" cases and he gets results b/c he uses "flooding" or simply overpowers the dog to get it to comply ... While this works short term, (in front of the camera) he never spends the time to explaining that the owner MUST continue to spend a lot of time working with the dog in order to extinguish the bad behaivor. Taking it for long walks only makes the dog tired, it is NOT a substitute for a trusting relationship and proper obedence training.

I've worked with a few dogs that have had some fairly serious problems. To be fair they were not what he would call "Red Zone". I may not have gotten "instant" results like CM, but I have a 100% rate of success. It took a lot of work by the owner and with some input and instruction by me the issues were gone in 1-4 months in most cases.

One dog that I worked with suffered from fear aggression. It took me just 4 one hour sessions to help her become more comfortable around new ppl. She still has some issues with "first time" meetings, but she doesn't go blistic when new ppl walk by her now. After she meets them once, (is allowed to smell them from a distance and is allowed to be around them without them forcing themselves on her) the second meeting goes with no problem. The key was to get ppl to pay NO attention to the dog and allow her to come to them on HER terms. Once she realized that ppl were not going to hurt her and that they had lots of treats in their pockets ... she became fine with it!!! Over the course of the past 4 months, the owners have had 20-30 ppl come by with treats in their pockets.

CM had a simular issue and his solution (he calls it "rehabilitation") was to force the dog to sit or lay down and allow ppl to touch, pet and stroke it. Any time the dog would react, growl or lash out in fear, CM snap the leash or pinned it to the ground. This kind of "rehabilitation" does nothing to help the dog overcome the fear, it only teachs the dog to freeze when it is fearful.

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PostSubject: Re: Be the Pack Leader by Cesar Milan   Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:06 pm

Great Review, I really like that you took explained the good with the bad, something I definitely wouldn't call biased. I haven't read his books yet, but I think it would be a good idea too, just for the sake of not giving a blind opinion.

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PostSubject: Re: Be the Pack Leader by Cesar Milan   Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:31 pm

Steven_L wrote:
Great Review, I really like that you took explained the good with the bad, something I definitely wouldn't call biased. I haven't read his books yet, but I think it would be a good idea too, just for the sake of not giving a blind opinion.

Im glad you liked it ... I have always hated the "one sided" reviews that ppl post. When I read something I always try to look for things I can use even if I dont totally agree with someone. I think this is how we grow, and how we avoid becoming a "sheep" that follows a person or idea blindly.

I am currently reading his 1st book "Ceser's Way" ... It is supposed to be more about his Philosophy and what he believes. I'll let you know how it comes out!!! ROFL

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PostSubject: Re: Be the Pack Leader by Cesar Milan   Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:27 pm

Sounds good! I've seen that book around but (at the time) didn't think about getting it. Although I'm sure they might have it here in the library.... scratch

But yes, good point about being open minded helping avoid becoming "sheep", but also its good because you don't readily discard everything even though the author makes a good point.

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PostSubject: Re: Be the Pack Leader by Cesar Milan   Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:34 am

I figured out where CM started to change is approch .... In a 2008 episode with Ashley Simpson (Season 5, Episode 2: Cricket and Hemingway & Rigby), Cesar began using treats to reward one of her dogs. He was teaching the dog to use the treadmill.

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Last edited by Betterdog4u on Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:06 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
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PostSubject: Re: Be the Pack Leader by Cesar Milan   Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:56 pm

I don't watch his show, but before then he didn't use treats at all?

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PostSubject: Re: Be the Pack Leader by Cesar Milan   Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:18 pm

Steven_L wrote:
I don't watch his show, but before then he didn't use treats at all?
Nope ... He just expected them to do what he asked of them because he was "the pack leader" scratch

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PostSubject: Re: Be the Pack Leader by Cesar Milan   Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:13 pm

Betterdog4u wrote:
Steven_L wrote:
I don't watch his show, but before then he didn't use treats at all?
Nope ... He just expected them to do what he asked of them because he was "the pack leader" scratch

Oh wow, that IS sad... Well good thing he's opening up a bit...I hope

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PostSubject: Re: Be the Pack Leader by Cesar Milan   Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:37 pm

gotta mention him or his book in a dog convo/forum a lot lately, hehe

Great review though! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Be the Pack Leader by Cesar Milan   Mon May 03, 2010 6:29 pm

I don't have time to watch much TV and haven't read any of his books, so don't know a whole lot about him, but I will say one thing about this, I would bet lots of money that he's a whole lot better than the current trainer at our local Petco.
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PostSubject: Re: Be the Pack Leader by Cesar Milan   Mon May 03, 2010 8:44 pm

Ann wrote:
but I will say one thing about this, I would bet lots of money that he's a whole lot better than the current trainer at our local Petco.

What makes you say that? Horrible trainer?

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PostSubject: Re: Be the Pack Leader by Cesar Milan   Tue May 04, 2010 4:36 am

I haven't experienced her training abilities, but she's in there every saturday, and when I come in with one of my dogs, she instantly blames every other dogs behavior on "that Rottweiler in the store". I've made a habit of going in every Sat morning at just so I can be a thorn in her side.
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PostSubject: Re: Be the Pack Leader by Cesar Milan   Tue May 04, 2010 9:10 am

Ann wrote:
I haven't experienced her training abilities, but she's in there every saturday, and when I come in with one of my dogs, she instantly blames every other dogs behavior on "that Rottweiler in the store". I've made a habit of going in every Sat morning at just so I can be a thorn in her side.
HE He he, you DO have a bit of a devilish side, dont you!!! Twisted Evil

I find it amusing (and also sad) that some trainers can actually blame the sorounding for causing a disruption in the dog they are training. Isn't this part of "proofing" behaivor?!?!? Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Re: Be the Pack Leader by Cesar Milan   Tue May 04, 2010 3:55 pm

She's not training in there on saturdays, she walks around trying to drum up business. Any one of my dogs will be standing by my side calmly, and when any other dog starts jumping in the air, barking, pulling the owner into shelving, she tells the owner of the out of control pooch that it's the Rottweiler's fault. It doesn't matter if we're 3 aisles away. And yes, I do have some very short horns that pop out from time to time.
Yes, those dogs could use some training but if she really believes what she's saying, I doubt that she's trainer enough to make a difference.
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PostSubject: Re: Be the Pack Leader by Cesar Milan   Tue May 04, 2010 5:07 pm

Ann wrote:
She's not training in there on saturdays, she walks around trying to drum up business. Any one of my dogs will be standing by my side calmly, and when any other dog starts jumping in the air, barking, pulling the owner into shelving, she tells the owner of the out of control pooch that it's the Rottweiler's fault. It doesn't matter if we're 3 aisles away. And yes, I do have some very short horns that pop out from time to time.
Yes, those dogs could use some training but if she really believes what she's saying, I doubt that she's trainer enough to make a difference.

Thats horrible! And she's actually said this while you were within earshot? Wow.... well if she can't proof behaviors then I can't imagine that her training capabilities are anything to be impressed by.

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PostSubject: Re: Be the Pack Leader by Cesar Milan   Tue May 04, 2010 7:28 pm

She says it very loudly and repeatedly whenever I'm in the store at the same time she is. She intends for me and everyone else to hear what she's saying. IMHO, it makes her appear quite ignorant.
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PostSubject: Re: Be the Pack Leader by Cesar Milan   Tue May 04, 2010 10:45 pm

Ann wrote:
She intends for me and everyone else to hear what she's saying. IMHO, it makes her appear quite ignorant.
I have to agree, she is showing her stupidity ... You are so kind to helping her!!! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil affraid cheers

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