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Steven_L
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PostSubject: Shock Collar?   Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:09 pm

The shock collar uses a combination of both postive punishment and negative reinforcement (usually you can't have one without the other.lol.), and from the looks of things not too many people on dog forums like them. However this isn't always the case. What are your opinions regarding shock collars? Do you think they are ok to use in some situations?

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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:04 pm

Steven_L wrote:
The shock collar uses a combination of both postive punishment and negative reinforcement (usually you can't have one without the other.lol.), and from the looks of things not too many people on dog forums like them. However this isn't always the case. What are your opinions regarding shock collars? Do you think they are ok to use in some situations?
99% of the time I would be against shock collars. If you take the time to learn about your dogs likes and dislikes, and then build a trusting relationship, you should never need to use one.

The ONLY time I can see it as the proper tool is when you take on the responsiblity of working with an aggressive or visious dog with the goal of rehabilitating it. A shock collar can help to break fixation or an agressive reaction to training, but it should ONLY be used as a short term solution.
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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:16 am

Used in a way to divert attention? One could easily use a sound deterent, no? (e.g. Bunch of keys or tin can filled coins). We also have to remember that most aggression cases stem from fear in which case p+ and r- techniques would be counter productive. However I whole heartily agree that if we get to know the dog better there is rarely a need to use them.

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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:53 am

Steven_L wrote:
Used in a way to divert attention? One could easily use a sound deterent, no? (e.g. Bunch of keys or tin can filled coins). We also have to remember that most aggression cases stem from fear in which case p+ and r- techniques would be counter productive. However I whole heartily agree that if we get to know the dog better there is rarely a need to use them.
Correct, Sound IS the best way, and I ALWAYS suggest it. But in A FEW cases sound may not work so usung leash corrections or firm touch (like CM uses) or the collar may be the only other option.

I have ALWAYS told ppl that when making corrections it is important to use the "LEAST" amount of action nessessary to accomplish the correction. Example: You dont need to kink the dog if a simple "NO" will make it stop barkinng ...

In my prevous post I forgot to add: "The Electronic (shock) Collar" should only be used as a LAST resort. Unfortunately, most ppl who use it ... use it first because they are looking for the EASY way out. They obviousy dont understand that they are doing more harm than good!
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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:27 pm

I believe that the reason why the shock and prong collars have come under such disgrace is because people use them right off the bat and don't take the time to understand whats going on in the dog's head. Now I'm not saying that we are anything like dogs, but we have to remember that a dog-dog correction is swift and then its all over...we humans tend to put our emotions into our corrects (such as checking the leash too hard because we are frustrated) this is simply not done in the dog world.

Hehe you know, I'm a big advocate for sound deterent because its a good way to get a dog's attention but there are some people that think its too aversive...? Hmmm I'm thinking this should be a whole different topic itself. 👅

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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:47 pm

Steven_L wrote:
Hehe you know, I'm a big advocate for sound deterent because its a good way to get a dog's attention but there are some people that think its too aversive...? Hmmm I'm thinking this should be a whole different topic itself. 👅
Me thinks so too!!! Arrow

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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:01 pm

Hey, just a while ago on Yahoo Answers there was a question about shock collars. Apparently a husky didn't want to stop noise making so the owners put a shock collar on him but when they took it off for a bath the poor thing has blood and puss around his neck, shock collars can do that?

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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:43 pm

Steven_L wrote:
Hey, just a while ago on Yahoo Answers there was a question about shock collars. Apparently a husky didn't want to stop noise making so the owners put a shock collar on him but when they took it off for a bath the poor thing has blood and puss around his neck, shock collars can do that?
Yes, Ive seen instances were the owner applies the collar SO tight (and leaves it on for months) that it eventually digs into the skin. Its JUST like an embedded collar. To me, this is simply ABUSE!!!

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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:19 pm

Ya abuse, well I can't think of anything else to call it! Its so sad really, if they just invested a little time on training...

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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:49 pm

Steven_L wrote:
Ya abuse, well I can't think of anything else to call it! Its so sad really, if they just invested a little time on training...
That's the problem today. No one wants to do the work. They just want instant results. :x

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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:54 pm

Betterdog4u wrote:
Steven_L wrote:
Ya abuse, well I can't think of anything else to call it! Its so sad really, if they just invested a little time on training...
That's the problem today. No one wants to do the work. They just want instant results. :x

Hence why some TV dog trainers that promote aversive techniques are so popular!

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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:15 pm

I would never use a shock collar though I have one. How would you like it if someone was teaching you something and you didn't do it right so you got shocked by a collar? Doesn't sound so fun, that's how dogs feel. Shock collars should be banned from the world. They are never ok to use in any situation.
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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:27 pm

Eduardo wrote:
I would never use a shock collar though I have one. How would you like it if someone was teaching you something and you didn't do it right so you got shocked by a collar? Doesn't sound so fun, that's how dogs feel. Shock collars should be banned from the world. They are never ok to use in any situation.
I agree 100% Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:45 pm

Eduardo wrote:
I would never use a shock collar though I have one. How would you like it if someone was teaching you something and you didn't do it right so you got shocked by a collar? Doesn't sound so fun, that's how dogs feel. Shock collars should be banned from the world. They are never ok to use in any situation.

I agree with that statement. I also feel like shock collars have become the easy way out from traditional methods of training which take time, effort and patience. You can train any dog to listen if you got the will, determination and the patience. Whenever I was in school, I couldn't understand math and they didn't put a shock collar on me and tell me I had to learn it or I'd get shocked. They gave me a tutor after school and I'd learn it at my own pace. People say eh, you cannot compare humans to an animal but though that statement might me true in some sense in another they can feel pain like we do and if we'd not be willing to do that to our kids or ourselves why would we do it to our pets? Just my opinion.

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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:20 pm

Yeah, that's all true xXEvilMistressxX. Animals have feelings too, just like we do.
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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:58 pm

Hehe I agree with all you guys, I woundn't mind tools like these so much if people used them AFTER trying to train their dogs...but they don't.... I just couldn't believe that some people would leave them on to the point when it digs into the poor dog or it makes them bleed! Thats really sick No

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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:28 pm

Don't use shock collars! That's why humans made new technology that doesn't hurt our dogs!
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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:34 pm

My feeling is that if you take the time to build a bond, a trust and find out what your dog likes and dislikes you should NEVER have a need for pronge or shock collars.

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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:55 pm

I totally agree with "betterdog4u" . well said. i dont think you need them and its possible to teach your pet what is right and wrong. The only way i would is it the animal is uncontrollable at first and needs some rehabilitation.
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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:58 pm

Well even in some rehab situation you may not need to use tools such as shock collars, in many cases it would probably be useless anyway.

Truth be told its not like shock collars work very well either, I've seen a dog bark to her heart's content even while she had a shock collar. Its best to stick with a training schedule Grin

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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:02 pm

Shock collars can burn the skin. I think they're making them now with an automatic shut off, since humans that use them are often not smart enough to stop on their own. Even so, anything electronic can malfuntion.
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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:22 pm

They also make collars that ONLY vibrate ... much like a cell phone or a pager.

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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:29 pm

Thats a good idea, I mean to have them shut off automatically, but still people would get better, longlasting, and quicker results if they just went to the root of the problem. I also like the idea of the vibrating collar the only thing with that is that it would most likely only work correctly with sensative dogs.

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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:01 pm

Steven_L wrote:
Thats a good idea, I mean to have them shut off automatically, but still people would get better, longlasting, and quicker results if they just went to the root of the problem. I also like the idea of the vibrating collar the only thing with that is that it would most likely only work correctly with sensative dogs.
The vibrating collar is only ment to break thier attention and give you a chance to give a command at that split second ... Much like an "AH-AH"

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PostSubject: Re: Shock Collar?   Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:04 pm

Betterdog4u wrote:

The vibrating collar is only ment to break thier attention and give you a chance to give a command at that split second ... Much like an "AH-AH"

Its supposed to distract Seriously? How hard does it vibrate, the theory behind the distraction methods such as "Ah Ah" is that the attention is redirected towards you... I guess it could work much like trainer disks if you have a control for it... Thing is that it wont work with really fluffy breeds like the Collies.lol. Citronella Collars might be a better suit, no?

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